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Local Democratic lawmakers blast state budget as helping rich and hurting poor

Posted: Friday, July 1, 2011 2:00 am | Updated: 5:02 pm, Wed Sep 5, 2012.

By Amy Revak

HeraldStandard.com

Herald-Standard | 12 comments

Area state representatives reacted along party lines to the $27.2 billion 2011-12 state budget, with Democrats calling it detrimental to education and human service programs and a local Republican calling it fiscally responsible.

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Welcome to the discussion.

12 comments:

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  • NineMileSkid posted at 11:31 pm on Sun, Jul 3, 2011.

    NineMileSkid Posts: 105

    zig zag, Social Security has always been a ponzi scheme. Proponents always liked to keep that quiet though.

     
  • NineMileSkid posted at 11:30 pm on Sun, Jul 3, 2011.

    NineMileSkid Posts: 105

    Actually, Truthness, the government does not have to fund tax cuts. It does have to fund spending though.

     
  • bircher posted at 2:10 am on Sun, Jul 3, 2011.

    bircher Posts: 11

    Thruthiness really has no clue of how things work when he said, "We can see how well allowing Exxon/Mobil to not pay tax has done for their price at the pump"

    First Exxon/Mobil makes about 7 cents a gallon profit on gasoline in bad years to 28 cents per gallon in good years. Government taxes which range from a low of 26.4 cents per gallon in Alaska to a high of of 66.1 cents per gallon in California and 50.7 cents per gallon in Pennsylvania.

    So who is more gredy here, Government which does nothing except tax and regulate or Exoon/Mobil who goes out and finds oil, drills for oil, refines oil, and delivers it to us for 7 to 28 cents a gallon?

    Exxon does not control the price. People control the price by way of free markets. Oil is auctioned on the exchanges and goes to the highest bidder. Yes gasoline did go up under Bush due to the fact that we had a good economy and there were more people (China, South Korea, and India) bidding on a scarce resource.

    Then truthiness says, "If you think that business is moving to China because of taxes, you've never managed a business." By far the bigger expense is labor: wages and benefits (which are deducted from taxes). That's why jobs are moving overseas. Everyone knows that. I think you know that as well as everyone else"

    No truthiness, wages and benefits are not deucted from taxes. They are deducted from taxable income. Jobs are moving to China for lower taxes, less regulation, and labor & wages to a lesser degree. China is no longer a 3rd world country with cheap labor. China's electricity is actuall 4 times the cost of electric in USA. As far as never managing a business, I have done so when I was a CPA and I am currently a management consultant with a list of clients throughout the USA and a few international clients. I charge around $200 per hour for my advice and have many happy clients. So what kind of work do you do?

     
  • Truthiness posted at 8:32 am on Sat, Jul 2, 2011.

    Truthiness Posts: 494

    "Social Security was sold to us as my money would fund my retirement many moons ago. Now Social Security is dependent on the current workers funding the retirement and near retirement of those in their 50's and 60's. That's the truth."

    Social Security has always operated that way -- that's why it's an insurance policy not a savings plan. Not just "now" but since its inception. It was right wing propaganda that twisted some into believing it was a savings plan to which we needed to be attentive to rates of return, as a pitch to privatize it and throw it to the whims of the stock market.

    The problem with Social Security isn't cash flow. Merely raising the income cap in proportion to inflation would solve that problem easily.

    The real problem is that in order to fund tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations, money was borrowed from the trust fund. Now that we need to cash those bonds to meet benefit obligations, those who have been enjoying lower taxes all along by borrowing from us are whining that they don't want to pay us back.

    But that wasn't their money, that was OUR money, and we need to demand that it be repaid. And that means these artificially low levels of taxes need to be adjusted upwards, and then some, to pay back the obligations we're due.

    The notion that seniors would give up $60,000 in benefits by delaying them until age 70 so that Warren Buffett can pay 15% taxes is ridiculous on its face. Even Warren Buffett thinks so I'd wager.

     
  • Truthiness posted at 8:18 am on Sat, Jul 2, 2011.

    Truthiness Posts: 494

    "Corporate taxes are an expense to a corporation just like labor, materials, or utilities."

    What you miss is that if they don't pay taxes, they are shifted to you and me. Someone's got to pay the bills (unless of course you're a Republican administration like Reagan and Dubya, in which case you just run up the credit card and provide tax breaks to your campaign donors, and then look to re-balance the budget on the backs of the working people, the poor, and the elderly of America.)

    It's ironic, but while we've lost the American dream, competitors like Germany are living that dream today. And all we're told by the minions of the Koch brothers is that we just need to suck it up and take up the slack for corporations and wealthy individuals who don't pay taxes. I've heard right wing pundits actually disparage the American dream as some communist plot -- that's how far we've drifted from sanity in this country.

    We can see how well allowing Exxon/Mobil to not pay tax has done for their price at the pump. As a way of saying "thanks" they gouge us to profits never before seen in corporate America, and this after spending a trillion dollars to secure Iraqi oil for them.

    No sir, my preference is that we end welfare for the wealthy and all pay our fair share. I won't be buying products from the vast majority of the businesses paying their fair share, so any costs passed on to me are minor compared with picking up their slack directly in my income tax bill.

    If you think that business is moving to China because of taxes, you've never managed a business. By far the bigger expense is labor: wages and benefits (which are deducted from taxes). That's why jobs are moving overseas. Everyone knows that. I think you know that as well as everyone else.

    In closing, if lower taxes meant jobs, we'd have been at zero unemployment at the end of the Cheney administration.

     
  • bircher posted at 4:58 pm on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    bircher Posts: 11

    Demoncrats pay attention - Your idea of a safety net is more like a hammock.

    WOW, Thank God for Demoncrats for raising awareness on this. I really trust Weasel Deweese's opinion.

    Truthiness said, "The reason we pay too much in taxes is because the wealthiest among us don't pay their fair share, nor do corporations". Where do I begin with this. First corporations really never pay taxes, never did, and never will.Corporate taxes are an expense to a corporation just like labor, materials, or utilities. When one of there expenses go up they simply raise the price of the products consumers buy. So in the end consumers pay the tax. Yeah Truthiness, Let's tax Exxon and big oil. It does not matter to big oil because they will just raise the price of the gas we buy and we consumers will be paying that tax increase. If corporations are taxed too much then they move to China. Does Truthiness realize that Communist China has lower corporate taxes than the USA? China also has a lower corporate income tax for high tech products. In case you wonder Truthiness, this is why everyone with a plug on it is made in China these days.

    Then Truthiness said, "Social Security is not a savings plan. " That is the first correct thing you said but you are wrong when you call it insurance. Social Security is a government run pyramid scheme. Look how Social Security works and is finded. If you ran an investment plan like this then you would be in prison for a pozi scheme.

    Then another wrong statement, "No one is stopping anyone from opening a brokerage account and investing as much as they want into stocks" Completely false, when you tax us and force us to pay into social security then we do not have as much to invest in the market.

    Then we have the stupidity of Demoncrats who call it robbing from the poor. Sorry, but refusing to steal money from the productive and give it to the poor is not robbing the poor. Take a look around Fayette County. The bars, bingo halls, and video rental shops are filled with the so-called poor. They seem to always find money for tattoos, fast food, quads for the kids, cable television, cell phones, and cigarettes. Just take a look at Wal-Mart in Uniontown on almost anynight and you can see the leisure poor.

     
  • zig zag posted at 2:59 pm on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    zig zag Posts: 26

    Social Security was sold to us as my money would fund my retirement many moons ago. Now Social Security is dependent on the current workers funding the retirement and near retirement of those in their 50's and 60's. That's the truth.

     
  • Overtaxed Citizen posted at 9:44 am on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    Overtaxed Citizen Posts: 185

    Why does the Heraldstandard.com allow Mahoney Kula, Deweese, and the others to lie in their newspapers without asking the tough questions to get to the truth?

    Here's a question that no one is asking: where did the money go that was cut from education?

    Answer: that money was federal stimulus money that is no longer available.

    I am sure if the federal government gave us more money for education then we would have passed it on.

    Don't sit there and lie and say Corbett cut fundng to education, because the truth is that it was borrowed money and everyone knew that it wouldn't last.

    This corporate tax loophole that all the dems are crying about....they had 8 years under Rendell to close the so called loop hole, so why didn't they close it?

    They had eight years under Rendell to cut spending, but instead they raised taxes, increased borrowing, and increased spending, but never once tried to save BILLIONS of dollars by gettng rid of the automatic pay raises, cutting the size of the legislature, reducing unConstitutional perks, cutting unnecessary state jobs, etc.

    This budget is fantastic and on time with no state tax increase or any more Spendell borrowing schemes.

    Finally, a state budget the citizen can be proud of.

    Shame on you DeWeese, Kula, and Mahoney for trying to pit the working poor against the republicans when we all know that all politicians are the same.

    And you democrats try to use the working poor as pawns, but it's not going to work any more.

     
  • Truthiness posted at 7:59 am on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    Truthiness Posts: 494

    The reason we pay too much in taxes is because the wealthiest among us don't pay their fair share, nor do corporations. So, we pick up the tab for them. I paid more in income tax last year than General Electric, Exxon/Mobil, and Bank of America combined.

    The poor are poor because the wealthy are shipping jobs overseas with those tax breaks. To state the obvious is called engaging in class warfare. Well, if so, it's a war that we didn't start, and now that the right wing Supreme Court has conflated money with speech, it's a war we will never win, for the lazy minded are easily propagandized.

    Social Security is not a savings plan. It is an insurance policy indemnifying us against disability and providing sustenance level for retirement. It is intended as a backstop, but many depend on it as their primary source of retirement income. It has successfully kept our senior citizens out of destitute poverty since inception.

    No one is stopping anyone from opening a brokerage account and investing as much as they want into stocks. But it's terribly convenient to look at the past two years of stock prices, because in September 2008 the markets tumbled 8% in one day, and in 1987 lost 20% in one day. No insurance policy should be invested in anything that volatile.

     
  • zig zag posted at 7:38 am on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    zig zag Posts: 26

    Hey Herald Standard, guess no Republicans would return your calls.

     
  • zig zag posted at 7:36 am on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    zig zag Posts: 26

    This budget did not raise taxes. That means everyone get to keep their money and not depend on the government for things they don't do very well. I watch buses capable of seating 40 or 50 zip around uniontown, etc with a dozen or less. We pay too much in federal, social security, gas, state, school, local, licensing taxes already!!! Nobody gets richer when the government taxes us. (DeWeese said, “It is ironic that just after the Carmichaels Water Authority concluded a boil-water advisory, Republicans are passing a budget that lays off workers at DEP.”) Local labs can analysis the water just as well as the DEP and the government doesn't have to pay each DEP worker $50k in wages, health, retirement, etc. The poor are poor in part because they trusted these crony Dems. Social Security didn't give an increase the last two years but the stock market rose about 20% in that same time period. The lifetime return on Social Security is about 1%. Everybody take care of yourself and quit trusting in government, unions, etc. to bail you out.

     
  • Carlyn posted at 7:09 am on Fri, Jul 1, 2011.

    Carlyn Posts: 5

    What'S new, the poor that has always kept the rich in their life style has always got screwed.Welcome to the honesty of politics.

     
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